Sometimes I feel like my cussing makes me sound like Barney from how I met your mother but Gemma deserved such intense praise as she is such a wonderful human being! I hope you enjoy the podcast and you can find Gemma and her Podcast over at:
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okay we are back we are on the curiosity chronicles today i am your host taylor
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cecilia brooke and i have with me the wonderful wonderful jemma james i am so
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excited to talk to you because i'm so excited to be here thank you for having me
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yeah absolutely absolutely okay so let's just start off with like
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Share a little bit about yourself.
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I know everybody hates that question because it's like, oh, what do I say?
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Where do I start?
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Yeah, exactly.
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But if like no one has ever stumbled upon your sub stack or your podcast or
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anything like that,
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like just like the first thing that pops to your head,
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just share that.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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Where to start?
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I'll try and kind of condense it into the cliff notes or we'll be here all day.
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I am Gemma.
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I host the podcast.
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I'm the creator of the podcast and the blog called Getting Your Life Together.
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Slightly ironic as I started it at a time when mine was completely falling apart.
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So basically my life fell apart.
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What can only be described as spectacularly in 2017.
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I...
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everything kind of fell apart in a really short space of time.
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I lost my husband really suddenly to cancer.
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I was approaching 30 years old at this point.
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And so I lost my husband really suddenly.
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And exactly four weeks to the day after that,
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I got laid off from my job,
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the job that I basically spent my entire 20s working towards.
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And really shortly after that,
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I had to move out of our home because,
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I mean,
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obviously going from two incomes to zero incomes.
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So it was a pretty rough year.
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And all of that kind of happened within the space of a few months.
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So in response, I decided to begin a blog and a podcast.
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Well,
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the podcast has actually only come recently,
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but I started the brand Getting Your Life Together at that point.
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And since then,
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since everything kind of exploded,
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I pretty much voluntarily burned the remainder of it to the ground.
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I gave up my home, my job.
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I gave away all of my things.
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And I've spent the last couple of years traveling the world solo and learning new things along the way.
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And the idea of the blog initially was to share what I was learning.
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I got really into personal development around that point.
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So it was really to...
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I guess,
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document this process of me trying to put myself back together as this new person
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and hopefully help other people along the way.
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And since then, I've retrained as a coach.
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And this year came the launch of the podcast,
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Getting Your Life Together,
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which is,
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I mean,
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the clues in the name,
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really.
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But the idea is to, I guess, help other people through what I've learned and
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have it as a place for,
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I guess,
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helping other women share their stories,
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other,
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you know,
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inspiring stories of reinvention and putting your life back together.
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I want it to be a really cool place where people can be inspired and just take the
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message that whatever you've been through,
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like you're never beaten,
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you know,
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you get to design your own story and decide where you go from there.
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So that's it in a nutshell, basically.
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That is incredible.
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And first off,
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I want to just say that it's,
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you know,
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really amazing that you're sharing all this people because losing your husband
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alone is a traumatic experience,
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but to then lose your job and then the house that you built together with him.
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I mean, they say good things come in threes, don't they?
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Yes, they do.
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Yeah.
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My mom's been saying that to me my whole life.
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I think she's more woo than she realizes.
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But yeah,
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It's really admirable that you're sharing,
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that you're willing to share this with everybody because there's so many people out
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there who can really lean into what your experiences were and that'll help them
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grow and thrive and maybe not feel as scared
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Um,
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I know,
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I know that's like one of the things that I really strive for with my,
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my work is to help people feel less alone,
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less scared.
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And I can imagine that you probably felt pretty alone during that time.
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Absolutely.
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And I think,
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I mean,
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to mirror back what you've said,
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I think it's amazing what you're doing as well and sharing your stories,
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because I think you've just hit the nail on the head alone.
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I'm scared is probably what I most felt during that entire time.
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Um,
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you know,
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even before losing my husband,
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just in the short time that he was ill for,
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before he actually died,
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that you can still feel so alone,
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you know,
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before the worst has even happened.
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I think sometimes people don't understand until you're in that position.
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So definitely the number one goal, as you just said, is to just help anyone going through it.
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It doesn't even have to be
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the same specific scenario in fact I obviously I hope that it isn't any kind of any
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kind of big life transition any kind of you know just unhappiness with where you
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are and wanting to create something different being in that space can just be so
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lonely and yeah as you said just the goal to help people feel like they're not on
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their own like they're part of something like you know we see we see you
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we're here and sharing stories is such a powerful way to do that.
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Absolutely.
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And I think,
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you know,
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I think that millennials really went through kind of like a little bit of a paradigm.
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I don't think I said that right shift,
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but like a lot of us had a lot of really,
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really intense things happen before COVID and during COVID.
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I know, I know many people our age who,
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had children die, spouses die, family members died, not because of COVID, just for crazy other reasons.
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And then we had this spike in mental health issues.
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And then COVID came and I really feel like that just blew everything up.
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And I see so many,
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I mean,
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I would say at least out of one,
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every two friends has gotten either divorced or had something traumatic happen to
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them within the last five years.
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And so I think, you know, sharing the different perspectives, like
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you understand what anticipatory grief is, but I don't understand what losing a spouse feels like.
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And you know what grief and loss and tragic emotions feel like,
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but you don't know what it's like to lose a kid.
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And I think that's what's really cool is that we can share and connect on some of
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the things that we do have similarities on,
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but we're not the only ones.
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And so people who are out there who need support for
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what you've gone through have that for people who need support,
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like,
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you know,
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they're doing what care is doing or,
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you know,
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things like that.
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It's just really cool.
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And I really enjoy that.
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And I,
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I think that's one of the things that really attracted me to your podcast was just the,
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the realness of it.
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Oh, I love that.
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Thank you.
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You're welcome.
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So what is your favorite part of your brand?
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um getting to so recently and this week actually I just had my first guest on on
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the podcast and it was just a whole different kind I've loved doing the solo
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episodes I've loved you know everything about the podcast um and the whole creative
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process behind that but having someone else on just I
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lit a whole new level of fire in me there is something about having a conversation
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with someone it just kind of hits differently and it lights me up in a whole new
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way and moving forward that is the vision I would love love to see for the show is
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having it just be this place of of sharing incredible stories and where you know
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people women can come and know that
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they're going to be inspired.
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They're going to like,
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we can talk about the hard stuff and we should be able to talk about the hard stuff,
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but we can also,
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we can do it in a way that leaves you feeling inspired and motivated,
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inspired the fuck up to go in,
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you know,
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take control of your life and write your own story.
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So that and moving forward, I just have such a clear vision now of the direction I want it to go in.
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And it is just amazing.
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being being a facilitator of you know other people being able to share their
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stories is just the dream yeah i love that i absolutely love that and i think i
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think that's what kind of made me realize why i wanted to do the interviews and not
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just make it a solo type thing because
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Really getting to hear other people's perspectives and knowledge and insight is really so valuable.
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I really enjoy it.
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So it's really cool.
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I think most of the podcasters that I listen to do a combination of solo and interview.
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Yeah.
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I love that because like Lewis House,
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love his solo podcast,
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but I also love the ones where he interviews people.
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I have received so many gems, so many gems from the people he's interviewed over the years.
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Yeah, that's one of my favorites too, the School of Greatness.
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I think that's such a good formula.
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Moving forward, I'm thinking I'm going to have two a week.
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So one will be an interview episode,
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but then there'll also be a short solo episode as well,
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like a kind of mini pod just with me sharing some insights,
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something kind of inspirational,
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motivational to end the week with.
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I think that kind of gives the best of both worlds.
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Yeah, I really like that.
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That's really, really cool.
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That's really fun.
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I'm trying to...
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alternating it but i feel like i have an influx of people that i just want to talk
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to i'm like compiling this list like every day i just see so many other people on
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substack it's just full of so many amazing inspirational people with with such good
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stories like this is getting longer and longer i know i literally have like all
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these people that i interact with on a daily basis that have become these friends
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that
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I didn't know I needed and I didn't know I wanted and now I have them and I can't
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imagine not having them.
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No, and you forget that half the time you've never actually met them in person.
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I said this the other day,
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I had my two month birthday on Substack and I can't believe it's been such a short
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space of time.
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Like the people I speak
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to every day on there.
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I forget that, number one, I've never met them in person.
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Number two,
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eight weeks ago,
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I didn't even know you,
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but now I almost can imagine not talking to you several times a week.
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It's incredible, the community on there and the depth of relationships that you can foster.
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I think that's one of the things that really makes Substack so unique.
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And I know this was Hamish's and Chris's goal.
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They wanted to have a place where
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know friendships and community was formed for people who like to be creators
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without all of the crap you know they can talk about what they want and as long as
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you know they're not being awful because really what apparently there's only like
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two real violations and that's like outside of like child pornography and stuff
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like that because yeah that's not okay um but like graphic images aren't allowed
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okay
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And you can't like openly state that you're going to hurt someone or harm someone
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or do some kind of like egregious crime.
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But other than that, like you can cuss as much as you want.
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You can talk about whatever you want, which is so different from all the other platforms.
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There's so many rules.
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Yeah.
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But I think that's what... I'm sorry.
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So I was just going to say,
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I find the community in general just so different than what you get on social media platforms,
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like the level of support and encouragement compared to having come off.
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So I've quit social media completely now.
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And yeah, it's just a whole different world.
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Yeah, I...
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100% agree because you can't be authentic like we can on Substack on any other platform.
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It's just almost impossible because it's too saturated by fakeness.
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So true.
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I never felt fully able to show up on Instagram and tell my story.
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There was still a part of me that was always hiding.
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I don't know why.
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I just felt so scared to really be open and talk about it.
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Whereas on Substack, I don't even know what it is.
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It just straight away,
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I just felt more able to just,
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it was the only place that I felt able to just fully show up as me and share my stories.
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Yeah.
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And without feeling the need to, you know, censor or try and be something that I'm not.
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And it's just, yeah, they've created something pretty incredible.
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They really have.
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And I 100% agree and relate.
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I mean, there are things that I have talked about and said on Substack that...
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I would have never, absolutely not on Facebook and definitely not on Instagram.
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I might've had a little private group chat on Snapchat, but that's, you know, maybe not.
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And that's with people who've known me my whole life.
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So in the things that I've talked about here,
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I have never been so vulnerable in my life,
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but what's really cool,
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like you were saying,
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is just the support.
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And even from people who are on the other side of it, like,
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Yesterday, I posted a note.
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I was having a hard day.
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And I made some comments.
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And one of the people that I've formed a really cool relationship with,
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she commented about how,
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like,
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her first reaction was,
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like,
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judgment,
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which is understandable.
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Because what I said, I mentioned how I was the one who cheated on my now ex-husband.
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And I say it, I talk about it because, like, I want people to know, A,
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that I recognize that AF really fucked up,
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but you know,
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it's okay to fuck up and recognize your mistakes,
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correct them and move forward and ensure that you don't do them again.
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And I think that's why,
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because a lot of us,
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I think,
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especially women end up cheating because they don't know any other way to get out.
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And they don't know how to have that conversation.
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They don't know how to tell their spouse that they're unhappy because no one
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teaches us how to talk about these things.
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And so my goal in sharing that really shitty,
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vulnerable information is to give perspective to people who are on the other side,
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because that's what
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That's what this person says.
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She's like,
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my husband,
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I was the one who was cheated on,
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but now I understand looking at it from his side.
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He probably felt that that was the only way to achieve the goal that he wanted
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because he knew if he did that,
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I would be done.
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And I think I actually have a post coming out today that talks about that.
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Like subconsciously, I didn't know any other way and it doesn't make it right, but it's the reality.
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So talking about it helps people, other people avoid that, uh,
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And if I would have shared that on Instagram or Facebook.
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God, imagine.
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Imagine the trolls.
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Right?
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Like, I'm sure I'm going to get some trolls on this podcast episode just talking about it.
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But we're just fine.
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You know, it is what it is.
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It's part of the internet.
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But yeah, I can't even imagine what people would say.
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I think the difference on Substack, as you just said, is people are always going to disagree.
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Like, we're all going to have different opinions, but they can articulate it.
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in an adult way and have the discussion.
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Whereas, you know, versus Instagram with just, just coming for you.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And I,
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it's,
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that's kind of how it's so interesting because Instagram does it in such a fake
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superficial way,
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but then you have someplace like Reddit,
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which also does that,
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but in such like an intense hurtful way.
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And that's one of the things that I love about Substack,
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but also I wanted to achieve with this podcast because,
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you know,
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I'm always curious about other people's perspectives.
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And we can learn from that.
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And just because you like red cars doesn't mean you're a horrible person.
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And that's no different than all the other things that people have opinions on.
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And I love that.
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on Substike, we have that ability to just talk about things openly.
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Like people are so vulnerable, even with their businesses.
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And that's not something you ever see on any of the other social media platforms.
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So that's been really, really cool.
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Just getting to see unfold, especially with, you know, people
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who share similar stuff to me and like watching all the comments on your,
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on your posts and stuff and the interactions on your notes,
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it just makes me happy that there's so much like support and encouragement because
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that gives us the chance to actually change people's lives,
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which is really cool.
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Completely agree.
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What's been your kind of, since, cause I know we joined Substack around a similar time.
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What's been your kind of favorite stuff to share?
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Cause I know you talk about Lily,
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but you also talk about,
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you know,
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your previous relationships and is there anything particular that.
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So I think it's so interesting that,
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and I don't know if I've ever like truly spent a good amount of time thinking about this.
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um i struggle with like wanting to always just talk about lily um but when i do
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that i get stuck in that headspace sometimes and it's just not a great headspace to
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stay in um but it is what gets the most traction on substack for sure and i get it
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because i am talking very bluntly about that about my life with her um
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But that wasn't actually my goal when I started my Substack.
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My goal was to just share with people how I've unfucked everything in my life.
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It's still not completely unfucked.
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But...
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I think my favorite thing to share so far honestly has been my podcast.
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It's just been so fun to get to know other people and to interact with everybody,
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but also just dive into just,
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stuff that i'm curious about um you know with my daughter the other day that was so
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fun because she told me what she wanted to be what she was curious about and she's
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got the craziest brain um and so that was just super fun and people like that they
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like my car chats which i love doing i think they're so fun and never took off on
(00:19:51):
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Instagram doesn't know what it's missing.
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I know.
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And everybody loves them here on subsects.
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I think that's the key, right?
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Leaning into what's fun, like leaning into what you find fun, what you actually look forward to.
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That is your, you know, intuition, your body telling you like this, this is what you're meant to do.
(00:20:13):
Yeah.
(00:20:14):
And that's never happened before.
(00:20:16):
And that's so cool.
(00:20:17):
I talked about that in my hero post that's pinned at the top of my sub stack, how
(00:20:23):
I was given so much back when I joined Substack.
(00:20:27):
I think that's been my favorite part is just it gave me back my writer hat.
(00:20:32):
It's been so long since I put that hat on and I had forgotten how much I love it
(00:20:38):
and how easy it is for me.
(00:20:41):
I mean,
(00:20:41):
I literally have to put time limits on my writing because otherwise I'll just spend
(00:20:46):
all day doing it and neglect everything else I need to do in my life.
(00:20:52):
What's been your favorite part?
(00:20:56):
Of what I've shared on Substack.
(00:20:58):
Yeah.
(00:20:59):
Yeah.
(00:20:59):
What you've shared on Substack or like, what's your favorite thing to share?
(00:21:03):
definitely the same answer as you the podcast let it be I enjoy writing um it's
(00:21:11):
something I find I have to be in the mood for and if I'm not then there is no
(00:21:16):
amount of force in it that will make it flow but once I'm in the flow then it just
(00:21:22):
comes like it just comes so easily um
(00:21:25):
So I definitely would say the podcast is where my heart is.
(00:21:31):
It's where the excitement is.
(00:21:34):
And when I kind of look ahead, it's the thing I can see build it.
(00:21:38):
I want, you know, the brand to become the podcast.
(00:21:41):
It's just, I feel like I find the thing for sure.
(00:21:45):
That's really, I love that so much.
(00:21:48):
Also, I need you to come on my podcast as well.
(00:21:50):
Yes, absolutely.
(00:21:51):
As my guest.
(00:21:52):
Not that my life is together, but I'm trying to get it together.
(00:21:55):
Well, that's the irony, right?
(00:21:56):
It's not actually about having your life together.
(00:21:59):
No, it's about getting it together.
(00:22:00):
What we learn on the way, yeah.
(00:22:02):
So much learning.
(00:22:03):
So much learning has occurred.
(00:22:05):
I never so far have met someone who actually has their life together.
(00:22:09):
I think that's a myth.
(00:22:11):
I think you're probably right.
(00:22:12):
I think that's definitely a myth.
(00:22:15):
I don't even know what that means.
(00:22:16):
What is it to have your life together?
(00:22:20):
It's subjective, I guess.
(00:22:22):
Oh, 100 percent.
(00:22:23):
And the same thing as like normal.
(00:22:25):
What is actually normal?
(00:22:26):
You know, is there really a normal?
(00:22:29):
But so you just launched your like one on one sessions, right?
(00:22:35):
Mm hmm.
(00:22:37):
Yes.
(00:22:37):
Do you want to share about that?
(00:22:38):
Because I would love to learn more.
(00:22:40):
So it's something I have done in the past.
(00:22:45):
I retrained as a coach and I've been working with coaching women for the last couple of years.
(00:22:52):
I put the one-to-one sessions on hold for a little bit while I was focusing on other things.
(00:22:56):
I get in the podcast and the blog up and running while I was traveling.
(00:23:01):
but they they are back I was finding the the response I was getting to the podcast
(00:23:06):
episodes and particularly I've done a couple around the areas like people pleasing
(00:23:12):
which seemed to get a really really good response and I decided to and I miss as
(00:23:18):
much I love the podcast I do also love the one-to-one sessions and that more like
(00:23:23):
working with people on a more intimate level um
(00:23:27):
So I've relaunched them.
(00:23:29):
I'm not doing any programs or anything at the moment,
(00:23:31):
but the one-to-one sessions for anyone who's been finding value in either the
(00:23:36):
podcast or the blog and just feel like they would benefit from going into a little
(00:23:41):
bit more detail and having some one-to-one support.
(00:23:45):
yeah anyone struggling with people pleasing or going through any kind of big life
(00:23:52):
transition they're just feeling a bit stuck anything around that kind of area I
(00:23:57):
love love working with women on that's awesome what is like your favorite piece of
(00:24:04):
advice to give to your clients
(00:24:08):
Favorite piece of advice?
(00:24:10):
Oh, that's a good one.
(00:24:11):
So I was asked this question the other day, which is quite similar, is what is your everyday mantra?
(00:24:16):
I feel like it's kind of the same thing.
(00:24:19):
And it literally just keep fucking going is my life mantra.
(00:24:25):
I just feel like it fits so beautifully because...
(00:24:28):
It works in the bad, but also the good.
(00:24:31):
Like, you just fucking go.
(00:24:34):
The best is always yet to come.
(00:24:36):
You know, if you're in a rough spot, just keep going.
(00:24:39):
I promise you, it all comes together.
(00:24:41):
And everything can come together for good just as quickly as, you know, it can fall apart.
(00:24:47):
So even if you're in a rough spot, I always just say, just keep fucking going.
(00:24:52):
It gets better.
(00:24:52):
I promise.
(00:24:53):
I'm proof that it does.
(00:24:55):
Yeah, 100%.
(00:24:55):
I really...
(00:24:58):
A, I'm going to think I'm going to title the podcast episode that.
(00:25:03):
I really like that.
(00:25:04):
And it fits the theme of my overuse of the word fuck.
(00:25:08):
But I also think I'm going to make that my personal mantra because it's so realistic,
(00:25:14):
but not like in a like.
(00:25:21):
bummer way like let's just keep fucking going because in reality that's all you
(00:25:25):
really can do it's the only choice right yeah and things just always have a way of
(00:25:31):
working out even when you can't see it in the moment and there's been so many
(00:25:34):
moments where I haven't been able to see it all we can do is just lean into the
(00:25:39):
trust and and just keep going and know that we'll get to where we're meant to be
(00:25:44):
yeah absolutely
(00:25:46):
That's such a great mantra.
(00:25:50):
And I really love that.
(00:25:53):
So along those lines,
(00:25:56):
if you were able to either go back and talk to yourself,
(00:26:01):
who was your version of yourself when your husband was diagnosed and through that time,
(00:26:08):
or you were to give some information,
(00:26:11):
some support,
(00:26:12):
some advice to someone who's going through something that you've gone through what
(00:26:15):
would be like something that would have comforted you a lot like something that
(00:26:20):
would have just made it feel less scary or less alone
(00:26:25):
Oh, God, I just thought I would want to go back and give her a hug first.
(00:26:29):
Just six years ago, me.
(00:26:33):
Yeah, I just want to go back and hug her to start.
(00:26:36):
I can just I see her in my mind right now.
(00:26:38):
She's just so alone and absolutely fucking terrified.
(00:26:43):
And honestly, I think like there's nothing if someone is in that position.
(00:26:48):
And if I was thinking to myself at that time.
(00:26:52):
I don't think there's anything that you could say to someone to make them less
(00:26:55):
scared because it's a fucking terrifying position to be in.
(00:27:00):
And there's nothing you can do other than just be in it.
(00:27:02):
Like there is no words you can say to someone and to even try is even, you know, doing them a disservice.
(00:27:10):
Yes.
(00:27:10):
You know, they just,
(00:27:13):
You just have to feel it and be in it in the moment.
(00:27:15):
There's nothing that's going to make that any better,
(00:27:17):
even though that's not what I would have wanted to hear.
(00:27:20):
I wish there was.
(00:27:21):
I wish there was something I could tell to someone.
(00:27:23):
But again, it just comes back to keep fucking going.
(00:27:26):
I remember one of the nurses in the hospital saying something similar to me.
(00:27:31):
She was along the lines of,
(00:27:34):
you know, just get up every day, wash your face and just keep going.
(00:27:38):
Like you do it.
(00:27:39):
That's all you can do in this moment.
(00:27:41):
And it really is just one day, not even one day at a time, one minute at a time.
(00:27:48):
There were definitely days where it was like one second at a time.
(00:27:50):
I'm like, okay.
(00:27:53):
Like five minute blocks.
(00:27:55):
Can I brush my teeth?
(00:27:57):
Can I wash my face?
(00:27:59):
I'm doing so well.
(00:28:01):
Right.
(00:28:02):
Right.
(00:28:02):
Oh my gosh.
(00:28:03):
I relate to that so much.
(00:28:05):
And it's,
(00:28:05):
it's kind of cool that you mentioned that a nurse said something along those lines
(00:28:09):
to you,
(00:28:10):
because I don't know if this is the case for you,
(00:28:13):
but I think that,
(00:28:16):
um,
(00:28:17):
I think everybody knows that nurses are very undervalued and underpaid.
(00:28:21):
Their job is really awful, but.
(00:28:25):
Oh, so much.
(00:28:27):
And in our situation, they're the ones who were our true support system through everything.
(00:28:35):
They're the ones that advocated for us to have things from the hospital and the home,
(00:28:39):
even our home health nurses were the same way.
(00:28:42):
And I just don't think that people
(00:28:47):
realize that there's so much more that comes with the nursing job and the knowledge
(00:28:53):
that they gain just from simply watching their patients and their families is
(00:28:57):
completely just priceless yeah and we were given so much
(00:29:05):
good like emotional advice literal advice on how to take care of our kid that no
(00:29:11):
one else knew no one else knew what to say to us but the people who see this every
(00:29:17):
day do and i just i love i love that and i think it's really cool so i love that
(00:29:24):
that also happened for you because i know some people get some really shitty nurses
(00:29:29):
honestly we had the best i yeah it just
(00:29:34):
absolute heroes, in my opinion.
(00:29:36):
If you're listening to this and you're a nurse, in my opinion, you're a hero.
(00:29:41):
Oh, absolutely.
(00:29:42):
I mean,
(00:29:44):
my best friend's a nurse,
(00:29:45):
so I'm definitely biased,
(00:29:47):
but she became a nurse because her son was born very,
(00:29:54):
very,
(00:29:55):
very medically ill.
(00:29:59):
He had quite a few genetic things wrong with him.
(00:30:01):
And
(00:30:03):
you know, she had, during that time, she had amazing care and awful care.
(00:30:08):
And that made her want to be able to give everybody amazing care as often.
(00:30:13):
And I think a lot of nurses, you know, their passion for their job comes from personal experience.
(00:30:20):
Absolutely.
(00:30:21):
So one of our nurses had retrained as a nurse because she lost her child.
(00:30:27):
I can't remember if it was cancer or another illness, but yeah, I mean, as you said, and
(00:30:33):
think that's a really common theme is you know you go through something and you
(00:30:40):
want to channel that pain into good and using it to help other people yeah
(00:30:48):
absolutely and that is just so cool that people I think that's one of the things I
(00:30:55):
really like about human beings is the resiliency of
(00:30:59):
that a lot of us will just channel the pain because people have said i don't know
(00:31:03):
if this was said to you but how did you keep going how do you keep going and i
(00:31:08):
wouldn't be able to cope i don't know what i would do it's like you you don't
(00:31:12):
literally there is no choice you don't have a choice like we never ever know how
(00:31:17):
strong we are or can be until we're put in the position you just don't know ever
(00:31:22):
what you're fully capable of until you have no choice but to keep fucking going
(00:31:28):
yes exactly and and i literally had a therapist say to that to me once and i said
(00:31:33):
well i didn't really have a choice she was all some parents wouldn't get up out of
(00:31:36):
bed and i just looked at her i know i was like i just looked at her and it's like
(00:31:42):
yeah i'm not one of those parents and i don't know a single parent of a medically
(00:31:48):
complex kid that would do that
(00:31:52):
It was just, I ghosted that therapist.
(00:31:56):
But so one of the things that,
(00:31:59):
one of the pieces,
(00:31:59):
it wasn't really advice,
(00:32:01):
it was more of a tip of someone who had been in my shoes that I was given
(00:32:06):
was of things to do while she was alive.
(00:32:09):
And some of those were, you know, we did her for her pictures of her first, her first prom graduation.
(00:32:14):
I saw those.
(00:32:16):
Yeah.
(00:32:17):
Yeah.
(00:32:18):
Yeah.
(00:32:19):
And I will get a post written up at about eventually because multiple people have asked,
(00:32:22):
which I thought was super interesting.
(00:32:25):
Um, but you know, little things like that.
(00:32:28):
Was there anything that you guys did to really, you know, make the most of your time together?
(00:32:37):
We got married.
(00:32:38):
I guess that's the main one.
(00:32:41):
I love that.
(00:32:42):
That makes me so happy.
(00:32:44):
Yeah, so we were planning our wedding in Venice.
(00:32:48):
So Venice, when we first got together, that had been our first ever holiday that we went on.
(00:32:53):
And we just absolutely fell in love with it.
(00:32:56):
It was understandable.
(00:32:58):
When I look back now, it's still one of the happiest memories of my life is that trip that we took.
(00:33:06):
So we decided straight away, like we need to have our wedding here.
(00:33:09):
So we were kind of in full in, in planning mode for that.
(00:33:13):
Um,
(00:33:14):
and then we found out really unexpectedly that he was ill and it was really clear from,
(00:33:21):
I mean,
(00:33:21):
talking about anticipatory grief as well,
(00:33:24):
going back to that,
(00:33:25):
there was no,
(00:33:26):
there was no kind of in-between stage for us.
(00:33:29):
There was no, it went from him being absolutely fine with, with no symptoms.
(00:33:34):
We had no idea that he was ill.
(00:33:36):
to him being incredibly ill.
(00:33:38):
There was no like, you know, gradual decline or he was literally just taken to hospital one day.
(00:33:44):
And we were told then, you know, he has this cancer and it's too advanced to do anything.
(00:33:51):
So at that point we decided we're not going to get the wedding in Venice.
(00:33:55):
That's not going to happen.
(00:33:57):
We don't want to be robbed of the chance to at least be able to get married and to
(00:34:02):
say our vows to each other.
(00:34:05):
we did it then just surrounded by our really close friends.
(00:34:09):
And it was really, it wasn't Venice, but it was perfect.
(00:34:13):
And it could not have been any more amazing and full of love.
(00:34:17):
So I'm really thankful we got to do that.
(00:34:20):
That was definitely a plus that we got that time.
(00:34:24):
But aside from that, honestly, there was nothing.
(00:34:27):
It just went from zero to a hundred of him being
(00:34:32):
well, fine and well one minute and needing full-time care and being really, really ill the next.
(00:34:37):
And our entire life just stopped.
(00:34:40):
So it was,
(00:34:41):
even though it took a few months,
(00:34:44):
it was a space of a few months between him being diagnosed to when we lost him.
(00:34:48):
That whole time was a grieving process because our life was gone.
(00:34:53):
We weren't,
(00:34:54):
you know,
(00:34:54):
didn't have our day-to-day of getting up,
(00:34:57):
going to work,
(00:34:57):
eating,
(00:34:58):
it was straight away.
(00:34:59):
He was in the hospital.
(00:35:01):
needing full-time care, having chemo, all of that stuff.
(00:35:05):
So aside from getting to get married,
(00:35:09):
which is the biggest blessing,
(00:35:11):
we had the rest of that time taken away from us,
(00:35:15):
really.
(00:35:15):
We weren't able to do that much else.
(00:35:17):
But, you know, I'm thankful, thankful that we got to do that, at least.
(00:35:22):
That's the most important thing.
(00:35:25):
Sorry, I got a little teary because I'm just thinking about, like,
(00:35:31):
Just,
(00:35:32):
I'm so happy that you were able to do that,
(00:35:35):
you know,
(00:35:36):
but my heart breaks for you because you didn't get anything else and you didn't get
(00:35:40):
to spend that time,
(00:35:42):
the rest of your life with your person.
(00:35:45):
And so that always, you know, kind of hits me in the feels, especially.
(00:35:52):
I take comfort in the fact that he got to spend the rest of his life with me.
(00:35:58):
That was it.
(00:35:59):
So we did it in a way.
(00:36:01):
Yeah, that is such a good way of looking at it.
(00:36:06):
I listened to a podcast episode of two friends who, one of them died and came back to life.
(00:36:21):
Yes, I know.
(00:36:22):
It sounds crazy.
(00:36:24):
I will send it to you on sub stack.
(00:36:27):
But it's like these two best friends and the one of the best friends,
(00:36:31):
like they've been best friends for like 25 years.
(00:36:33):
And she she detailed her whole
(00:36:38):
story of what it was like because she remembered every single moment so how long
(00:36:44):
did she die for 20 minutes she was gone for 20 minutes how is that possible i don't
(00:36:52):
really understand how i know like medically that can happen it's pretty rare um but
(00:37:01):
so i don't think she was
(00:37:03):
brain dead i think she was physically like just her heart was stopped um but it was
(00:37:11):
i would absolutely send it to you because it i had to stop it a few times because i
(00:37:17):
had to cry but it really gave me a huge sense of peace that i have never had um in
(00:37:26):
terms of connecting with lily um
(00:37:33):
And that is so cool.
(00:37:37):
But she was talking about how she we get to choose.
(00:37:43):
We choose when we leave.
(00:37:45):
And even if it's, you know, not the most ideal time, we still get that choice.
(00:37:53):
And I thought that was super interesting because and I don't know if this is your experience, but.
(00:38:01):
We are,
(00:38:02):
our number one goal with Lily was to have a peaceful death,
(00:38:06):
like as peaceful as possible because we knew she was,
(00:38:08):
you know,
(00:38:09):
she was already on oxygen and all sorts of other things.
(00:38:12):
And the last thing I wanted was to listen to things beeping and then that God awful
(00:38:17):
flatline sound,
(00:38:19):
you know?
(00:38:21):
And so I brought it up multiple times to doctors and hospice.
(00:38:25):
Like, I don't want any monitors when this happens.
(00:38:28):
I want to be alone.
(00:38:29):
I want quiet, like nothing.
(00:38:32):
And we got that.
(00:38:34):
And she, because like that week, she had awesome week.
(00:38:37):
She was alert.
(00:38:38):
She was interacting with us more than she had in a long time.
(00:38:41):
And so that was just such a huge blessing that we got that that week.
(00:38:48):
But I know she chose when to go because she had a really funny sense of humor.
(00:38:51):
And the very next day we were supposed to start our Christmas in July celebration.
(00:38:58):
because we knew she wasn't going to be there for christmas and so we were going to
(00:39:05):
do it that weekend and she went the day before and i was like yeah she did that on
(00:39:10):
purpose but it brought me a lot of comfort to know that like she knew it was time
(00:39:19):
she knew it was her time to leave her body but that her soul was going to be there
(00:39:23):
forever because
(00:39:25):
we have our soul contract and I'm,
(00:39:28):
I don't know if you've ever been able to feel that with your husband,
(00:39:31):
but you know,
(00:39:32):
it's,
(00:39:33):
it's a pretty special thing.
(00:39:34):
Once I, once I learned how to stop and listen.
(00:39:38):
Yeah.
(00:39:39):
I've been able to hear her a lot more lately and that's been really special.
(00:39:44):
Yeah.
(00:39:45):
I kind of get, I think,
(00:39:47):
feel kind of similarly with my husband that he it was special that that we got to
(00:39:53):
get married because I mean basically they said when we found out that he was ill
(00:39:59):
they had essentially said you know he's so ill we would be really really surprised
(00:40:03):
if he makes it past the next couple of weeks
(00:40:07):
and he hung around for a few months after that and I believe that was because he
(00:40:13):
wanted us to so badly for us to be able to get married and so we hung around even
(00:40:20):
the doctors couldn't understand it they were like you know it must just be pure
(00:40:23):
stubbornness that he's lasting this long because there's no medical reason um but
(00:40:31):
we yeah we were planning our wedding and we really wanted to be able to do that and
(00:40:35):
I think that is
(00:40:36):
what he was able to hold on for.
(00:40:39):
And then, you know, after that, it was just a couple of days until he passed away.
(00:40:44):
So I do think it's, it's similar.
(00:40:46):
That was, as you say, they know when it's time to go.
(00:40:50):
Yeah.
(00:40:52):
Sorry.
(00:40:53):
This is all just making me so emotional.
(00:40:55):
My heart's breaking for you.
(00:40:56):
I just, I am so,
(00:41:04):
I'm amazed and just, I admire you a lot.
(00:41:08):
And I know there was no other choice.
(00:41:11):
You had no other choice.
(00:41:12):
You had to keep going.
(00:41:13):
You have, you're still here.
(00:41:14):
You had to keep
(00:41:15):
trucking along and figuring out how to live post all of this awfulness,
(00:41:21):
but it doesn't make it any less admirable,
(00:41:23):
even if you know all that stuff.
(00:41:26):
I think the same about you.
(00:41:28):
And I mean,
(00:41:29):
I think part of it as well is,
(00:41:31):
I don't know about you,
(00:41:32):
but we,
(00:41:32):
we have that feeling of,
(00:41:33):
we want to do them proud.
(00:41:35):
Like we want to do their memory pride.
(00:41:36):
And for me, I want to think that he would look at me now and be proud of the way I've
(00:41:44):
oh he's so good to handle it I guess that's even the right yeah terminology but
(00:41:51):
just what I've been able to do and to just keep moving forward I hope that that he
(00:41:58):
would be proud of that as I'm sure Lily would be with you but I think that's the
(00:42:02):
the drive that we have isn't it when we go through something it's we want them to
(00:42:06):
be able to to look at us and be proud
(00:42:10):
Absolutely.
(00:42:10):
And he would be, he would be so, I mean, look at what you've done in six years.
(00:42:15):
Also, it's crazy.
(00:42:16):
That's been six years for you as well.
(00:42:18):
No, where does the time go?
(00:42:20):
I know.
(00:42:21):
It feels like such a conflicting feeling on one hand.
(00:42:26):
I can feel it like it was yesterday.
(00:42:28):
And on the other hand,
(00:42:29):
like it feels like a different person,
(00:42:32):
which I guess it was,
(00:42:33):
I am a different person.
(00:42:34):
I feel so, so near yet so far.
(00:42:37):
It's,
(00:42:41):
So true, though, because I mean, I can still see so many of those moments so vividly in my head.
(00:42:48):
I mean, the picture is perfect, perfectly clear.
(00:42:51):
But I'm not who I was then in so many different ways.
(00:42:56):
And I don't think we could be even if we wanted to be like something like that
(00:42:59):
changes you whether you like it or not.
(00:43:02):
I do believe that it actually chemically changes you.
(00:43:06):
There is some kind of physical,
(00:43:09):
physiological response that happens when you go through something tragic like that.
(00:43:15):
I'm just learning about that.
(00:43:16):
I'm reading Your Body Keeps Score.
(00:43:18):
I started that as well, actually.
(00:43:22):
I'm really enjoying it.
(00:43:24):
It's just a lot of information.
(00:43:25):
So I read like half of a chapter at a time.
(00:43:29):
But
(00:43:30):
i i wouldn't want to be that person to be honest um because she might you know like
(00:43:39):
you said you just want to give her a hug that's what i would want to do i would
(00:43:42):
want to give her a hug lost and terrified and because at this time as i was going
(00:43:47):
through this essentially on my own i live in a different country than my family we
(00:43:53):
didn't at that time have
(00:43:55):
the best relationship we hadn't for many years and we're we're in a good place now
(00:44:00):
but oh that makes me happy to hear back then we we hadn't spoken for many years and
(00:44:06):
so i was handling this on my uh as a you know a 29 year old yeah nursing my husband
(00:44:12):
and coping with the death alone and and packing up our home and having to move and
(00:44:16):
look for a new job and everything it was just handling on
(00:44:22):
my own so I just I look back at her now and she was just so terrified and I mean I
(00:44:28):
have huge respect for her but be that person now I almost feel like I want to just
(00:44:35):
go back and take care of her for real I just I was so angry I was so angry and I
(00:44:42):
was so I remember reaching like peak rage at about
(00:44:47):
six six to twelve months in I was just so angry at the world yes and everyone in it
(00:44:54):
and everyone I mean I don't feel this way now but it's part of the process isn't it
(00:44:58):
just being angry at looking around and seeing everyone doing what you thought you
(00:45:03):
would be doing and yes what you want to be doing alongside them and and just this
(00:45:07):
feeling of why like why not me why didn't
(00:45:12):
this happened the way it did.
(00:45:14):
And obviously that doesn't get you anywhere, but you don't learn that until further down the line.
(00:45:20):
Yeah.
(00:45:20):
And I don't think there's any stopping those kinds of thoughts and frustrations and
(00:45:27):
emotions because that's the natural human response.
(00:45:30):
You just don't understand.
(00:45:32):
And we naturally just want to understand.
(00:45:34):
Yeah.
(00:45:35):
We try and make sense of everything and some things just can't be made sense of.
(00:45:40):
Yeah.
(00:45:41):
And that was so hard for me to grapple with because I'm a much better control freak
(00:45:47):
than I was back then.
(00:45:48):
But back then, I mean, there was nothing I could do.
(00:45:55):
There was nothing I could do to change anything.
(00:45:57):
I couldn't control anything.
(00:45:58):
I couldn't fix anything.
(00:45:59):
I couldn't make anything better.
(00:46:01):
And that was just, I think I shut down at that point.
(00:46:07):
Yeah.
(00:46:08):
Because I didn't know what else to do.
(00:46:10):
And while I had family around me, I never shared anything with anybody.
(00:46:19):
That wasn't who I was.
(00:46:21):
I was a really private, emotional person.
(00:46:23):
It's interesting because a lot of people did not expect that.
(00:46:29):
because of how extroverted I am.
(00:46:32):
But the problem was, is I was an extrovert with an inability to allow myself to feel emotions.
(00:46:39):
So, you know, I isolated myself internally and just went really far, far inside of myself.
(00:46:49):
And I think that just made
(00:46:52):
it's so much scarier to be honest.
(00:46:57):
Um, and then I just blocked it all off and shut down.
(00:47:01):
And so I,
(00:47:03):
I,
(00:47:03):
I think that's like one of the things I say the most to people and probably the,
(00:47:10):
my biggest message on my sub stack is like,
(00:47:14):
you don't need to suffer alone.
(00:47:16):
Like,
(00:47:17):
you don't need to hide the horrible things you're thinking in your head.
(00:47:26):
Because I guarantee you someone else has thought that.
(00:47:28):
And just because you think something doesn't mean it's real.
(00:47:32):
And it's okay to think those things and go to someone and be like, oh my God, I just thought this.
(00:47:37):
They're like, well, let's talk about that.
(00:47:41):
And
(00:47:45):
I had one person that I could be, you know, that understood my anger and I could let it out with them.
(00:47:52):
But that was just one person and it was a tiny little part of it because they only
(00:47:56):
understood a tiny little part of it.
(00:47:59):
And I feel like you're giving that to people as well in terms of just getting their shit together.
(00:48:08):
You're a person that they can go to to look at and be like, oh, she talked about this.
(00:48:14):
Okay, let's listen to this again.
(00:48:15):
Because the way you talk about things, I'm going to listen to stuff again.
(00:48:19):
I'm going to want to.
(00:48:20):
I'm struggling with this.
(00:48:21):
I'm going to go search back through, you know, whatever, because everything's so practical.
(00:48:25):
And I like that.
(00:48:27):
I like practical things.
(00:48:29):
Yeah.
(00:48:30):
And so I just think that's really important.
(00:48:34):
really unique about what you have to offer.
(00:48:37):
But my, my other really favorite part about your podcast is it's applicable to everybody.
(00:48:46):
And I love that.
(00:48:48):
I love it.
(00:48:49):
Thank you for saying that because that was being my biggest aim from the start is
(00:48:54):
I'm well aware that the position I was in is thankfully not that common.
(00:49:00):
So if, you know, I,
(00:49:02):
if I was to start a podcast specifically aimed at people who are being widowed in
(00:49:06):
their twenties,
(00:49:07):
like that's going to be a pretty niche audience.
(00:49:09):
And the goal was never to focus solely on that.
(00:49:13):
Obviously that is a big part of the story and the reason for creating the podcast was
(00:49:19):
but that was why it was important to expand it into and have the general theme just
(00:49:24):
being of like going through any kind of hard shit any you know any kind of life
(00:49:30):
transitions reinventions unhappy whatever it is you can find something here useful
(00:49:36):
for you it's it's more about the overall theme rather than oh this has to have
(00:49:39):
happened to you too so that's always been and I'm
(00:49:43):
thinking about that constantly on every episode it's like how can i take the
(00:49:47):
lessons from my specific situation and use them in a way articulate them in a way
(00:49:52):
that someone can apply to them and whatever their specific situation is so it's
(00:49:58):
more about the the overall theme rather than the specifics so i'm so glad that that
(00:50:04):
yeah you find it helpful
(00:50:06):
Yeah,
(00:50:07):
especially because,
(00:50:08):
to be honest,
(00:50:08):
I wish I would have had your podcast when I was going through everything with Lily,
(00:50:12):
but that wouldn't have been possible because you were going through everything at
(00:50:15):
the same time.
(00:50:18):
But,
(00:50:18):
you know,
(00:50:19):
especially the people-pleasing one was one where I literally,
(00:50:25):
like,
(00:50:25):
stopped and wrote things down,
(00:50:27):
and I went back just to,
(00:50:28):
like,
(00:50:29):
really listen to it because I was –
(00:50:34):
chronic people pleaser for so long and that was something that really like broke
(00:50:40):
for me when willie was born because i didn't know how to balance that um
(00:50:48):
And so I either was a people pleaser or raging bitch.
(00:50:52):
Like I couldn't find the in-between.
(00:50:54):
Yeah.
(00:50:58):
And so now I've gotten a better handle on it,
(00:51:02):
but the practical tips in there,
(00:51:04):
we're just,
(00:51:05):
you know,
(00:51:05):
there's the day-to-day stuff.
(00:51:07):
I enjoy it when people do that because there's so much impractical, unpractical, impractical.
(00:51:15):
advice out there and just stuff that's just complete moonshots that I can't achieve
(00:51:20):
you know right in that moment and that's not the case with your podcast so I really
(00:51:26):
enjoy that we are about an hour in um so where's the time gone I know it's crazy
(00:51:35):
the same thing happened when I did this with Megan it just like took off um so
(00:51:42):
let's wrap up with
(00:51:45):
there was one thing that you could share today that you just want people to know
(00:51:50):
what would it be i guess just you know whatever it is wherever you're at whatever
(00:51:59):
you're going through
(00:52:02):
you can get through it.
(00:52:03):
Like, I mean, circling back again to just keep fucking going.
(00:52:06):
I don't want to keep repeating myself, but I promise you, whatever it is, you can get through it.
(00:52:12):
I've been there.
(00:52:13):
I've been in the moment where I thought there's absolutely no way that I can survive this and keep going.
(00:52:19):
And I never would have in a million years thought that six years later,
(00:52:25):
I could sit here and look back and feel like,
(00:52:30):
so hopeful for the future and excited about the future.
(00:52:33):
Like there was a time when I'd never,
(00:52:35):
I remember describing it to my best friend as just telling her,
(00:52:40):
all I can see ahead is like darkness and I can't picture a time when that is not
(00:52:45):
the case.
(00:52:46):
And so to be able to sit here six years later and,
(00:52:48):
and feel actually excited about what I'm doing and what I'm creating and at peace
(00:52:53):
with the way things have unfolded.
(00:52:55):
It just in that moment would have been unthinkable.
(00:53:00):
So if I can just say one thing,
(00:53:02):
it's that even if you don't believe me right now,
(00:53:04):
even if you can't see it,
(00:53:05):
even if you don't believe it,
(00:53:07):
You will be okay.
(00:53:08):
And at some point, however long from now, you will look back and think, yeah, she was right.
(00:53:16):
That random woman I listened to on that podcast, she was right.
(00:53:18):
I am okay.
(00:53:19):
I really, really...
(00:53:23):
I love that so much.
(00:53:24):
So that's really great advice.
(00:53:27):
So people can find you on Substack, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify as well.
(00:53:32):
Yes, the podcast.
(00:53:34):
It's my Substack.
(00:53:37):
And the podcast is available everywhere you get your podcasts.
(00:53:40):
It's called Getting Your Life Together.
(00:53:42):
It's hosted on Substack.
(00:53:44):
It's also on Apple, Spotify, Amazon.
(00:53:48):
And yeah, all of the links in...
(00:53:51):
of ways to to get in touch with me to work with me or to just come and say hi
(00:53:54):
they're all in in the show notes of all the episodes as well so i'm pretty pretty
(00:53:58):
easy to track down and i love to meet cool new people and and to talk so just yeah
(00:54:05):
get in get in touch if you want
(00:54:07):
Awesome.
(00:54:08):
I love that.
(00:54:08):
And I will make sure you're linked at the bottom of the transcript and I will make you,
(00:54:14):
you can add like contributors.
(00:54:16):
So if you're like on Substack, I can connect it.
(00:54:18):
So it automatically connects with yours, which is pretty cool.
(00:54:22):
So awesome.
(00:54:23):
All right.
(00:54:24):
Well, thank you so much, Gemma.
(00:54:25):
It has been such a wonderful conversation.
(00:54:28):
Thank you so much, Fun.
(00:54:29):
And I can't wait to have you on mine.
(00:54:31):
Yes, I'm very excited.
(00:54:33):
Yes.
(00:54:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
(00:54:35):
Absolutely.
(00:54:37):
All right.
(00:54:37):
Well, this has been the Curiosity Chronicles.
(00:54:40):
We are going to wrap up.
(00:54:41):
Thank you for listening to me, Taylor Cecilia Brooke and Gemma James.
(00:54:45):
It has been a wonderful conversation and we will talk to you guys later.
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